Matt McKeever is a CPA & Real Estate Investor. He implements the BRRRR investing strategy in London Ontario.
https://www.youtube.com/c/MattMcKeever/
Matt McKeever is a CPA & Real Estate Investor. He implements the BRRRR investing strategy in London Ontario.
You'll learn how to analyze multifamily properties and how to maximize your return on investment through strategic renovations that will allow you to increase rents, your equity and your cashflow!
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Jay Conner (00:10):
Well, hello there and welcome to another episode of real estate investing with Jay Conner. I’m Jay Conner, your host, and also known as the Private Money Authority. If you’re brand new here to listening on iTunes or Google play, or you may be watching and listening to the live stream right now on one of our YouTube channels or Facebook and you’re new to Real Estate Investing with Jay Conner show. We talk about all things, real estate, how to find deals, how to get them funded, how to sell them fast, how to automate your business. So you’re actually running your business and it’s not running you. And since we launched the show back in June of 2018, I’ve had some very, very amazing guests here on the show with me, and today’s no different, but before I bring my guest on, I want to let you know about what one big thing that we do here on the show. And that’s talking about funding for your deals.
Well, hello there and welcome to another episode of real estate investing with Jay Conner. I’m Jay Conner, your host, and also known as the Private Money Authority. If you’re brand new here to listening on iTunes or Google play, or you may be watching and listening to the live stream right now on one of our YouTube channels or Facebook and you’re new to Real Estate Investing with Jay Conner show. We talk about all things, real estate, how to find deals, how to get them funded, how to sell them fast, how to automate your business. So you’re actually running your business and it’s not running you. And since we launched the show back in June of 2018, I’ve had some very, very amazing guests here on the show with me, and today’s no different, but before I bring my guest on, I want to let you know about what one big thing that we do here on the show. And that’s talking about funding for your deals.
Jay Conner (01:04):
Well, the short version of my story is, my wife, Carol Joy and I started investing in single family houses here in Eastern North Carolina, back in 2003. And the first six years that we were doing business, I relied on the local banks and mortgage companies. But in January of 2009, I was cut off from a funding, but no notice like the rest of the world. And so I was introduced to this wonderful world of private money. How to get funding for your deals that has nothing to do with your credit. Nothing to do with your verification of income. Nothing to do with your experience and how you can actually set your own rules to get funding for your real estate deals. So I’ve been using private money for funding ever since 2009. We’ve got 49 private lenders right now, funding our deals.
Well, the short version of my story is, my wife, Carol Joy and I started investing in single family houses here in Eastern North Carolina, back in 2003. And the first six years that we were doing business, I relied on the local banks and mortgage companies. But in January of 2009, I was cut off from a funding, but no notice like the rest of the world. And so I was introduced to this wonderful world of private money. How to get funding for your deals that has nothing to do with your credit. Nothing to do with your verification of income. Nothing to do with your experience and how you can actually set your own rules to get funding for your real estate deals. So I’ve been using private money for funding ever since 2009. We’ve got 49 private lenders right now, funding our deals.
Jay Conner (01:55):
And if you would like to learn as well about how you can get funding for your deals, the same way I do without relying on banks, then I’ve got a free online class for you to check out after the show. You go over after the show to www.JayConner.com/MoneyPodcast. That’s JayConner.com/MoneyPodcast. There, I will teach you and reveal the five easy steps as to how you can quickly have zero funding for your deals, and very quickly having the hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars in funding.
And if you would like to learn as well about how you can get funding for your deals, the same way I do without relying on banks, then I’ve got a free online class for you to check out after the show. You go over after the show to www.JayConner.com/MoneyPodcast. That’s JayConner.com/MoneyPodcast. There, I will teach you and reveal the five easy steps as to how you can quickly have zero funding for your deals, and very quickly having the hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars in funding.
Jay Conner (02:37):
So with that, I’m just so excited to introduce to you my guest today. My guest is a CPA and a real estate investor. You don’t find too many of those combinations inside the same head. So anyway, he implements this thing called the BRRRR investing strategy. And we’re going to dive on that and find out what in the world that strategy is. So he primarily focuses on small apartments and commercial deals. Now he has got a very, very popular YouTube channel. That right now has over 60,000 subscribers. And we’re going to tell you here in a moment, how to get over that YouTube channel and you can check him out, but on his YouTube channel, he teaches you how to analyze multifamily properties and how to maximize your return on investment through strategic innovations and renovations. That will show, that will allow you to increase your rents, increase your equity and how to increase very quickly your cash flow and these properties. And own this same YouTube channel, you’ll find videos where he’s teaching this ranging from renovating properties, duplexes, triplexes of all sizes, as well as dealing with student rentals his best practices for buying properties, how to manage your tenants and your portfolio of properties.
So with that, I’m just so excited to introduce to you my guest today. My guest is a CPA and a real estate investor. You don’t find too many of those combinations inside the same head. So anyway, he implements this thing called the BRRRR investing strategy. And we’re going to dive on that and find out what in the world that strategy is. So he primarily focuses on small apartments and commercial deals. Now he has got a very, very popular YouTube channel. That right now has over 60,000 subscribers. And we’re going to tell you here in a moment, how to get over that YouTube channel and you can check him out, but on his YouTube channel, he teaches you how to analyze multifamily properties and how to maximize your return on investment through strategic innovations and renovations. That will show, that will allow you to increase your rents, increase your equity and how to increase very quickly your cash flow and these properties. And own this same YouTube channel, you’ll find videos where he’s teaching this ranging from renovating properties, duplexes, triplexes of all sizes, as well as dealing with student rentals his best practices for buying properties, how to manage your tenants and your portfolio of properties.
Jay Conner (04:02):
So he’s also going to show you on his YouTube channel, how he structures joint venture deals. How he gets funding for his deals. How he negotiates with banks, refinances properties, and of course, much more. So be sure to subscribe to his channel when we tell you about it here in a moment, and you’ll be able to follow him in his pursuit of financial independence and how you can get it also as well. With that, I’m so excited to bring onto the show right now, Mr. Matt McKeever. Hello, Matt! And welcome to the show, my friend.
So he’s also going to show you on his YouTube channel, how he structures joint venture deals. How he gets funding for his deals. How he negotiates with banks, refinances properties, and of course, much more. So be sure to subscribe to his channel when we tell you about it here in a moment, and you’ll be able to follow him in his pursuit of financial independence and how you can get it also as well. With that, I’m so excited to bring onto the show right now, Mr. Matt McKeever. Hello, Matt! And welcome to the show, my friend.
Matt McKeever (04:35):
Thanks, Jay. Appreciate the warm introduction.
Thanks, Jay. Appreciate the warm introduction.
Jay Conner (04:38):
Absolutely! Glad to hear you. So, you’re up in Canada. Well, whereabouts in Canada?
Absolutely! Glad to hear you. So, you’re up in Canada. Well, whereabouts in Canada?
Matt McKeever (04:43):
So located London, Ontario, about two hours from Toronto, which is our big city here in Canada.
So located London, Ontario, about two hours from Toronto, which is our big city here in Canada.
Jay Conner (04:49):
I got you. Now is all of your investing these days taking place in Canada?
I got you. Now is all of your investing these days taking place in Canada?
Matt McKeever (04:54):
Yep. So right now my portfolio is exclusively in Southwestern Ontario. So within right now, actually it’s pretty much all clustered in London, Ontario, which is a market with a 500,000 Metro population area. Just to kind of give you guys a rough idea. Median house price is around 350 to 400.
Yep. So right now my portfolio is exclusively in Southwestern Ontario. So within right now, actually it’s pretty much all clustered in London, Ontario, which is a market with a 500,000 Metro population area. Just to kind of give you guys a rough idea. Median house price is around 350 to 400.
Jay Conner (05:14):
So with everything that we’re going to be talking about here on the show today, and also on your YouTube channel, do all or most of the strategies apply to doing this type of business the way you do it in the United States?
So with everything that we’re going to be talking about here on the show today, and also on your YouTube channel, do all or most of the strategies apply to doing this type of business the way you do it in the United States?
Matt McKeever (05:29):
Yeah, absolutely. So if anything, the United States has maybe more friendly investor regulations in most States. So everything we do here in Canada can absolutely be replicated in the States. And in fact, sometimes it’s easier because you guys have nifty little tricks, like the 10 31 exchange, which is completely nonexistent here in Canada.
Yeah, absolutely. So if anything, the United States has maybe more friendly investor regulations in most States. So everything we do here in Canada can absolutely be replicated in the States. And in fact, sometimes it’s easier because you guys have nifty little tricks, like the 10 31 exchange, which is completely nonexistent here in Canada.
Jay Conner (05:50):
I got you! And that comes into play more often in the world of commercial than it does in single family homes. Right?
I got you! And that comes into play more often in the world of commercial than it does in single family homes. Right?
Matt McKeever (05:58):
Absolutely! So here in Canada, unfortunately we don’t have that 10 31 exchange. We can find a handful of other innovative ways to try and, you know, help us speed up the velocity of our money. But really for myself, when I first joined like a lot of investors, my biggest thing was either limited amounts of resources, right? The limited amount of my own money. And like a lot of people I had discovered private money like yourself. So we’re constantly focused on how can I stretch the little bit of money I have to control the most amount of real estate as possible. And that’s what really led me into that BRRRR investment strategy, where you buy a property, renovate it, you know, fix it up, bring it up to its highest, best most efficient use, then rerent it out at a higher amount, then go back to your lender and refinance and pull out the money. And I started originally doing that on small single family homes and small multi-families. And now I’ve just graduated to doing the exact same business model, but just with small apartment buildings, rather than like a triplex or a fourplex,
Absolutely! So here in Canada, unfortunately we don’t have that 10 31 exchange. We can find a handful of other innovative ways to try and, you know, help us speed up the velocity of our money. But really for myself, when I first joined like a lot of investors, my biggest thing was either limited amounts of resources, right? The limited amount of my own money. And like a lot of people I had discovered private money like yourself. So we’re constantly focused on how can I stretch the little bit of money I have to control the most amount of real estate as possible. And that’s what really led me into that BRRRR investment strategy, where you buy a property, renovate it, you know, fix it up, bring it up to its highest, best most efficient use, then rerent it out at a higher amount, then go back to your lender and refinance and pull out the money. And I started originally doing that on small single family homes and small multi-families. And now I’ve just graduated to doing the exact same business model, but just with small apartment buildings, rather than like a triplex or a fourplex,
Jay Conner (06:56):
I got you. Well, just in case some people aren’t able to stay to the end of the show. Let’s go ahead and let everybody know right now how they can find your YouTube channel. That’s got all the trainings on it and et cetera, where can they go for that?
I got you. Well, just in case some people aren’t able to stay to the end of the show. Let’s go ahead and let everybody know right now how they can find your YouTube channel. That’s got all the trainings on it and et cetera, where can they go for that?
Matt McKeever (07:09):
Yeah. So if you hit me up on YouTube, it’s just Matt McKeever. That’s M C K E E V E R. And anywhere social media, you’ll find me on those platforms. So if you’re not on YouTube, I’m everywhere else as well.
Yeah. So if you hit me up on YouTube, it’s just Matt McKeever. That’s M C K E E V E R. And anywhere social media, you’ll find me on those platforms. So if you’re not on YouTube, I’m everywhere else as well.
Jay Conner (07:24):
Well, what I want us to talk about. Well, thank you for sharing that, Matt. What I want us to talk about today here on the show are really three topics. First I want to hear about your personal journey in real estate. Secondly, I want to, I want you to talk about the power of social media and how you use social media to leverage success in your business. And then thirdly, you got an interesting concept that you talk about. You don’t talk that much about ROI, Return On Investment or Return On Cash. You talk about this thing talking to call return on time. So those are the three topics let’s start with your personal journey, Matt, and your story.
Well, what I want us to talk about. Well, thank you for sharing that, Matt. What I want us to talk about today here on the show are really three topics. First I want to hear about your personal journey in real estate. Secondly, I want to, I want you to talk about the power of social media and how you use social media to leverage success in your business. And then thirdly, you got an interesting concept that you talk about. You don’t talk that much about ROI, Return On Investment or Return On Cash. You talk about this thing talking to call return on time. So those are the three topics let’s start with your personal journey, Matt, and your story.
Matt McKeever (08:03):
Absolutely. So like a lot of real estate investors you know, my gateway into real estate investing the gateway drug, as I like to say it, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. That’s what really started my entire journey. And in my fourth year at university, you know, I was going through for business. I was going to get my CPA license and really the reason I wanted to get into business or become an entrepreneur was to, you know, get rich. Like a lot of people. But I didn’t really know what get rich meant and had no idea how to actually achieve it. And so I was speaking with one of my roommates at the time we lived in a six bedroom student rental house and I was like, Jake, your dad’s rich. He owns like a big company with hundreds of employees. I was like, go ask him how we get rich.
Absolutely. So like a lot of real estate investors you know, my gateway into real estate investing the gateway drug, as I like to say it, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. That’s what really started my entire journey. And in my fourth year at university, you know, I was going through for business. I was going to get my CPA license and really the reason I wanted to get into business or become an entrepreneur was to, you know, get rich. Like a lot of people. But I didn’t really know what get rich meant and had no idea how to actually achieve it. And so I was speaking with one of my roommates at the time we lived in a six bedroom student rental house and I was like, Jake, your dad’s rich. He owns like a big company with hundreds of employees. I was like, go ask him how we get rich.
Matt McKeever (08:49):
Cause we both know we want to get rich, but we have no idea. And he actually gave us the book, Rich Dad Poor Dad. And ever since reading that book in the back of it and a list of other books to go read, I went and read every book from that as well. And just really got addicted to this idea of real estate investing and being able to build up a, you know, passive cash flowing investment portfolio. I didn’t end up jumping into real estate until age 25. So from kind of 2021 discovering real estate to 25 and actually executing that I was just consuming information, trying to save up money. But also I was trying to get outside my comfort zone because all my friends and family thought I was crazy for wanting to get into real estate investing when I was already on, you know, the corporate path to that white collar job with the corner office.
Cause we both know we want to get rich, but we have no idea. And he actually gave us the book, Rich Dad Poor Dad. And ever since reading that book in the back of it and a list of other books to go read, I went and read every book from that as well. And just really got addicted to this idea of real estate investing and being able to build up a, you know, passive cash flowing investment portfolio. I didn’t end up jumping into real estate until age 25. So from kind of 2021 discovering real estate to 25 and actually executing that I was just consuming information, trying to save up money. But also I was trying to get outside my comfort zone because all my friends and family thought I was crazy for wanting to get into real estate investing when I was already on, you know, the corporate path to that white collar job with the corner office.
Matt McKeever (09:37):
At the age of 25 is when I bought my first rental property. And on my 25th birthday, I ended up making a commitment to myself. So I downloaded an app on my phone that would count down the days to my 35th birthday. And I decided to make a commitment that I would retire by the age of 35 because of real estate investing. And so I was the guy at different parties or networking events, people would say, Hey, Matt, what’s new with you? What’s up? I’d pull out the phone and be like, Oh 2,465 days until my 35th birthday. When I get to retire. Long story short, kept buying real estate, kept in asking them that. And instead of having to wait 10 years, I actually retired from being a CPA, a chartered accountant at the age of 31 and just went all in to real estate investing at that point.
At the age of 25 is when I bought my first rental property. And on my 25th birthday, I ended up making a commitment to myself. So I downloaded an app on my phone that would count down the days to my 35th birthday. And I decided to make a commitment that I would retire by the age of 35 because of real estate investing. And so I was the guy at different parties or networking events, people would say, Hey, Matt, what’s new with you? What’s up? I’d pull out the phone and be like, Oh 2,465 days until my 35th birthday. When I get to retire. Long story short, kept buying real estate, kept in asking them that. And instead of having to wait 10 years, I actually retired from being a CPA, a chartered accountant at the age of 31 and just went all in to real estate investing at that point.
Matt McKeever (10:22):
And then from that I found like a lot of people, once I left the corporate 9-5 behind, my success in real estate actually really started hockey sticking because I had all this extra time and energy now to deploy into my real estate investing business. And in that first year of quitting my day job, I think I acquired 32 additional units that year. And then continued just to, you know, focus on different unique investment opportunities, started teaching other people about real estate investing as well. Because when I quit my day job at 31, I found it’s kind of lonely. There’s not a lot of other 31 year old retirees out there. And so I didn’t really have a peer group to hang out with. So I decided to start writing these really long emails to my friends, you know, like 5,000 word emails, trying to explain to them how they could quit their day job in five years, if they would just invest in real estate like I did.
And then from that I found like a lot of people, once I left the corporate 9-5 behind, my success in real estate actually really started hockey sticking because I had all this extra time and energy now to deploy into my real estate investing business. And in that first year of quitting my day job, I think I acquired 32 additional units that year. And then continued just to, you know, focus on different unique investment opportunities, started teaching other people about real estate investing as well. Because when I quit my day job at 31, I found it’s kind of lonely. There’s not a lot of other 31 year old retirees out there. And so I didn’t really have a peer group to hang out with. So I decided to start writing these really long emails to my friends, you know, like 5,000 word emails, trying to explain to them how they could quit their day job in five years, if they would just invest in real estate like I did.
Matt McKeever (11:15):
And I’m sure as you can imagine, your audience can imagine. No one responded to those 5,000 word emails because that’s a small novella. Thankfully at the time I happened to be reading a book and the books that speak to your audience in the language they wish to be spoken to. And immediately clicked for me, the reason that I love real estate and the reason so many people are drawn to real estate investing is because it’s such a tactical, you know, real investment, right? Like it’s a physical thing. Unlike say paper stock or paper assets. So immediately started documenting on my YouTube channel, just how I was going about investing in real estate. So if you go back to like my very first video, you can see, I was still swinging a hammer. Like I was still sweating up in the attics, re-insulating, running duct work, stuff like that.
And I’m sure as you can imagine, your audience can imagine. No one responded to those 5,000 word emails because that’s a small novella. Thankfully at the time I happened to be reading a book and the books that speak to your audience in the language they wish to be spoken to. And immediately clicked for me, the reason that I love real estate and the reason so many people are drawn to real estate investing is because it’s such a tactical, you know, real investment, right? Like it’s a physical thing. Unlike say paper stock or paper assets. So immediately started documenting on my YouTube channel, just how I was going about investing in real estate. So if you go back to like my very first video, you can see, I was still swinging a hammer. Like I was still sweating up in the attics, re-insulating, running duct work, stuff like that.
Matt McKeever (12:01):
So really have been exposed to almost every aspect of the real estate investing journey. But at this point now what the day to day looks like is I’ve got a wholesaling business with five full time employees just wholesaling real estate. I’ve got a company that just BRRRRs apartment building. So in the last eight months or so we’ve acquired about 70 units in that entity and have just been BRRRRing those apartments and then also have my education and just networking, which is, you know, my YouTube channel, social media presence and a couple other little education companies. So definitely just, you know, constantly trying to level up and surround myself with like minded individuals when it comes to real estate.
So really have been exposed to almost every aspect of the real estate investing journey. But at this point now what the day to day looks like is I’ve got a wholesaling business with five full time employees just wholesaling real estate. I’ve got a company that just BRRRRs apartment building. So in the last eight months or so we’ve acquired about 70 units in that entity and have just been BRRRRing those apartments and then also have my education and just networking, which is, you know, my YouTube channel, social media presence and a couple other little education companies. So definitely just, you know, constantly trying to level up and surround myself with like minded individuals when it comes to real estate.
Jay Conner (12:43):
Now you just said, that particular entity you’ve been BRRRRing properties. First of all, how do you spell that? Secondly, what does it mean?
Now you just said, that particular entity you’ve been BRRRRing properties. First of all, how do you spell that? Secondly, what does it mean?
Matt McKeever (12:53):
Absolutely. So B R R R R. And so it stands for Buy, Renovate, Rent, Refinance, and Repeat. And so really what that looks like is simply finding, to me the best way to explain it is you’re just looking for under utilized assets and you’re going to try and bring them up to their highest, best, most efficient use. So oftentimes what that looks like for me these days is we’re buying an apartment building here in Ontario that maybe is being rented out for 50% of fair market value. And the landlords owned it for 10, 20 years. There’s not a lot of equity and they’re no longer motivated to operate it at a hundred percent efficiency or anywhere close to it. They’re often approaching retirement age. So we go in there, buy the property. Then we implement strategic renovations, which again, unlike, you know, on HGTV, a lot of my YouTube fans would love to see me blowing out walls, you know, doing open concept this, that, and the other, but most of my renovations are really boring.
Absolutely. So B R R R R. And so it stands for Buy, Renovate, Rent, Refinance, and Repeat. And so really what that looks like is simply finding, to me the best way to explain it is you’re just looking for under utilized assets and you’re going to try and bring them up to their highest, best, most efficient use. So oftentimes what that looks like for me these days is we’re buying an apartment building here in Ontario that maybe is being rented out for 50% of fair market value. And the landlords owned it for 10, 20 years. There’s not a lot of equity and they’re no longer motivated to operate it at a hundred percent efficiency or anywhere close to it. They’re often approaching retirement age. So we go in there, buy the property. Then we implement strategic renovations, which again, unlike, you know, on HGTV, a lot of my YouTube fans would love to see me blowing out walls, you know, doing open concept this, that, and the other, but most of my renovations are really boring.
Matt McKeever (13:52):
It’s like, let’s clean out all the junk. Let’s paint the property. And maybe we’ll put a new kitchen and bathroom tops. And so really we’re just focused on what creates the highest return on investment from those dollars we’re investing into the property. So in my market here in London, Ontario, specifically usually adding dishwasher to a kitchen that can increase not only the rent we can charge every month, but also in general increases the quality of tenant that we’re going to be drawing from as well as say, adding laundry. If you can put in suit laundry, oftentimes in my market, I can charge between a $100 and $150 more per month in rent. And yet the cost of actually, you know, installing that laundry, depending upon the layout of the unit might be $2,500. So a very fast payback period in regards to when we can earn back that initial investment. But because we’ve increased the rent amounts.
It’s like, let’s clean out all the junk. Let’s paint the property. And maybe we’ll put a new kitchen and bathroom tops. And so really we’re just focused on what creates the highest return on investment from those dollars we’re investing into the property. So in my market here in London, Ontario, specifically usually adding dishwasher to a kitchen that can increase not only the rent we can charge every month, but also in general increases the quality of tenant that we’re going to be drawing from as well as say, adding laundry. If you can put in suit laundry, oftentimes in my market, I can charge between a $100 and $150 more per month in rent. And yet the cost of actually, you know, installing that laundry, depending upon the layout of the unit might be $2,500. So a very fast payback period in regards to when we can earn back that initial investment. But because we’ve increased the rent amounts.
Matt McKeever (14:44):
Now the actual capitalization rates of the property, you know, is going to revalue the property at a higher amount as well, if we the same cap rate. So again, what I’m really focused on is just taking underutilized assets, bringing them them up to their highest, best, most efficient use. Then re-renting them out for top dollar. And once we’ve re-rented it out for top dollar, you know, our income statement looks a lot more attractive, which means the lender and the appraiser is going to reappraise the property and refinance the property a much higher value. And ideally with our business model, if you’re doing it right, once you’re done this BRRRR and with the larger apartment buildings, it’s usually taken us about 18 months to do it from start to finish. What you’re going to end up doing is being able to extract all the initial capital you invested in. So the idea here is, you know, if I can refinance at a 75% loan to value, I maybe buy the property for, let’s say a million dollars, put 500,000 renovations, but then get it to reappraise at 2 million. Well at a 75% loan to value, I actually will get $1.5 million in new financing, right from the property, which means I can pay off the entire acquisition costs. So that’s really the base model here is to implement what we call a perfect BRRRR.
Now the actual capitalization rates of the property, you know, is going to revalue the property at a higher amount as well, if we the same cap rate. So again, what I’m really focused on is just taking underutilized assets, bringing them them up to their highest, best, most efficient use. Then re-renting them out for top dollar. And once we’ve re-rented it out for top dollar, you know, our income statement looks a lot more attractive, which means the lender and the appraiser is going to reappraise the property and refinance the property a much higher value. And ideally with our business model, if you’re doing it right, once you’re done this BRRRR and with the larger apartment buildings, it’s usually taken us about 18 months to do it from start to finish. What you’re going to end up doing is being able to extract all the initial capital you invested in. So the idea here is, you know, if I can refinance at a 75% loan to value, I maybe buy the property for, let’s say a million dollars, put 500,000 renovations, but then get it to reappraise at 2 million. Well at a 75% loan to value, I actually will get $1.5 million in new financing, right from the property, which means I can pay off the entire acquisition costs. So that’s really the base model here is to implement what we call a perfect BRRRR.
Jay Conner (15:58):
I love it! I never heard of the BRRRR strategy. I love it! Now, one thing you were just talking about was buying the properties. That’s the first letter in the BRRRR strategy. So here in the US there’s a popular website called LoopNet. What are, what are some of your favorite strategies these days for locating these under you know, these underperforming assets?
I love it! I never heard of the BRRRR strategy. I love it! Now, one thing you were just talking about was buying the properties. That’s the first letter in the BRRRR strategy. So here in the US there’s a popular website called LoopNet. What are, what are some of your favorite strategies these days for locating these under you know, these underperforming assets?
Matt McKeever (16:26):
Yeah, so there’s a lot of different strategies. One thing that is very different about the U S market and the Canadian market is, in the U S market, you guys have the freedom of information act. Here in Canada, we’ve got the protection information. It’s so like, it’s literally the exact opposite. So you guys are all about free information. We’re all about keeping it all secluded and hidden and private. So honestly my best way is like personal networking. So I’m happy to share some tips here, but it’s something that doesn’t seem to resonate with a lot of people my age or my generation, which actually makes for a great opportunity for anyone that’s willing to actually just build relationships, build rapport. And so, like, we actually target a certain type of realtor even to network with. Like the realtor I want to network with is he’s like, realistically, they’re above the age of 55.
Yeah, so there’s a lot of different strategies. One thing that is very different about the U S market and the Canadian market is, in the U S market, you guys have the freedom of information act. Here in Canada, we’ve got the protection information. It’s so like, it’s literally the exact opposite. So you guys are all about free information. We’re all about keeping it all secluded and hidden and private. So honestly my best way is like personal networking. So I’m happy to share some tips here, but it’s something that doesn’t seem to resonate with a lot of people my age or my generation, which actually makes for a great opportunity for anyone that’s willing to actually just build relationships, build rapport. And so, like, we actually target a certain type of realtor even to network with. Like the realtor I want to network with is he’s like, realistically, they’re above the age of 55.
Matt McKeever (17:21):
They’ve been in business for at least 15 years. And what we’re doing is we’re approaching those realtors and being like, Hey, who have you sold the property to? Like a large apartment building to 10 years or longer ago? They’re sitting on a ton of equity. I want to go make them an offer and make them a ton of money and make that offer through you and have you make commission off of it. So we’re very focused on trying to structure win-win opportunities when possible, and make sure that everyone eats because we find when make sure that everyone else profits from a deal we’d done, they get addicted to that cycle and they want to get us more deals. But again, we’re very boots on the ground and often focused on doing things that our competition won’t do. So everyone loves the idea of hiring a VA out of the Philippines and hitting them, them hitting the phones for a thousand calls a day.
They’ve been in business for at least 15 years. And what we’re doing is we’re approaching those realtors and being like, Hey, who have you sold the property to? Like a large apartment building to 10 years or longer ago? They’re sitting on a ton of equity. I want to go make them an offer and make them a ton of money and make that offer through you and have you make commission off of it. So we’re very focused on trying to structure win-win opportunities when possible, and make sure that everyone eats because we find when make sure that everyone else profits from a deal we’d done, they get addicted to that cycle and they want to get us more deals. But again, we’re very boots on the ground and often focused on doing things that our competition won’t do. So everyone loves the idea of hiring a VA out of the Philippines and hitting them, them hitting the phones for a thousand calls a day.
Matt McKeever (18:10):
But what we’ll do is I’ll literally send one of my employees to stake out an apartment building, and they’ll just park in front and literally talk to every person going in that building, being like, who’s the owner? Can I get the owner’s phone number? And we find that usually, you know, we ask enough, we will get that owner’s phone number. And a lot of the apartment buildings I buy are literally through that process of, originally it was myself or a business partner just taking it out. Now we have employees taking out the apartment buildings, but we found that that’s the best way to really get deals. Because if an owner has already thought about selling the property, contacted a realtor and listed on the market, they’re now focused on just getting top dollar. And if they’re solely focused on getting top dollar, that’s fine for them, but it’s usually not going to work for me and my business model. So we’re often focused on not finding sellers, but actually creating sellers by making what we call blind offers. I don’t even really know what their motivations are, but I know that they’ve owned it for so long that they’re probably sitting on massive amounts of equity. And so I’m hoping that I can present them with a unique offer that they haven’t even really considered. And, you know, then we can get that conversation rolling.
But what we’ll do is I’ll literally send one of my employees to stake out an apartment building, and they’ll just park in front and literally talk to every person going in that building, being like, who’s the owner? Can I get the owner’s phone number? And we find that usually, you know, we ask enough, we will get that owner’s phone number. And a lot of the apartment buildings I buy are literally through that process of, originally it was myself or a business partner just taking it out. Now we have employees taking out the apartment buildings, but we found that that’s the best way to really get deals. Because if an owner has already thought about selling the property, contacted a realtor and listed on the market, they’re now focused on just getting top dollar. And if they’re solely focused on getting top dollar, that’s fine for them, but it’s usually not going to work for me and my business model. So we’re often focused on not finding sellers, but actually creating sellers by making what we call blind offers. I don’t even really know what their motivations are, but I know that they’ve owned it for so long that they’re probably sitting on massive amounts of equity. And so I’m hoping that I can present them with a unique offer that they haven’t even really considered. And, you know, then we can get that conversation rolling.
Jay Conner (19:17):
So do you have your people stake out properties that looks just on the outside like it could use, you know some rehab and renovations and really be brought up to increase, you know, rents or whatever, or do you approach it differently? By again, looking for someone that probably has owned this property for a long time or which comes first? They’ve owned it for a long time or it looks like it could use some renovations or both?
So do you have your people stake out properties that looks just on the outside like it could use, you know some rehab and renovations and really be brought up to increase, you know, rents or whatever, or do you approach it differently? By again, looking for someone that probably has owned this property for a long time or which comes first? They’ve owned it for a long time or it looks like it could use some renovations or both?
Matt McKeever (19:47):
Yeah, we’re definitely open to either. In general, the way we’re usually going to like again, because we don’t have like easy databases of information. It can be very cumbersome to really figure out who’s owned what property for how long on a grand scale. I can definitely look it up individually, but there’s no way for me to like print off, you know, a giant data set. So in general, we’re more focused on the building first and then doing our research afterwards. So literally what I’ll do, and again, nothing fancy here, but I’ll go to my local cities, zoning map, look at the zoning, look for a high density residential. And then I’ll go on Google satellite and look just from the satellite view and find apartments, buildings, right? Identify the apartment buildings. Then literally go on Google street view. Sometimes on Google street view, you can see the property manager sign on the building.
Yeah, we’re definitely open to either. In general, the way we’re usually going to like again, because we don’t have like easy databases of information. It can be very cumbersome to really figure out who’s owned what property for how long on a grand scale. I can definitely look it up individually, but there’s no way for me to like print off, you know, a giant data set. So in general, we’re more focused on the building first and then doing our research afterwards. So literally what I’ll do, and again, nothing fancy here, but I’ll go to my local cities, zoning map, look at the zoning, look for a high density residential. And then I’ll go on Google satellite and look just from the satellite view and find apartments, buildings, right? Identify the apartment buildings. Then literally go on Google street view. Sometimes on Google street view, you can see the property manager sign on the building.
Matt McKeever (20:40):
So we’ll immediately just call the property management firm then. If we can’t find that, that’s when I’m probably going to send someone to stake out the building. Get in contact with the tenants and find out who manages it and how. But at the same time, we’ve got a lot of other strategies. So here in Canada, Kijiji is really popular in the States. I think it’s more often Craigslist is the, you know, the online classifieds the people are going to use. But I also love going on Kijiji, looking through the for rent ads. And you just look for the landlords that are beaten down and they’re just sick of it, right? So like there’s no good photos taken. And sometimes I don’t know what it’s like in the States, but in Canada you can read it like, the landlord will write all in caps, like no debt deeds. And that’s like the title of their Ad. And like, this guy doesn’t want to be a landlord anymore. This guy wants to sell to me, even if he doesn’t know it yet.
So we’ll immediately just call the property management firm then. If we can’t find that, that’s when I’m probably going to send someone to stake out the building. Get in contact with the tenants and find out who manages it and how. But at the same time, we’ve got a lot of other strategies. So here in Canada, Kijiji is really popular in the States. I think it’s more often Craigslist is the, you know, the online classifieds the people are going to use. But I also love going on Kijiji, looking through the for rent ads. And you just look for the landlords that are beaten down and they’re just sick of it, right? So like there’s no good photos taken. And sometimes I don’t know what it’s like in the States, but in Canada you can read it like, the landlord will write all in caps, like no debt deeds. And that’s like the title of their Ad. And like, this guy doesn’t want to be a landlord anymore. This guy wants to sell to me, even if he doesn’t know it yet.
Jay Conner (21:31):
I love it! When you said a moment ago, something really, really important to your, the success of your business is networking and relationships. Well, that ties right into how you’re able to leverage social media. So would you share with my audience here strategies and tips that you’re doing these days to leverage social media and to really how you harness the power of it?
I love it! When you said a moment ago, something really, really important to your, the success of your business is networking and relationships. Well, that ties right into how you’re able to leverage social media. So would you share with my audience here strategies and tips that you’re doing these days to leverage social media and to really how you harness the power of it?
Matt McKeever (21:57):
Yeah. And so the first thing I think that we need to really discuss is why even care about social media, right? And I find a lot of investors think that it’s simply a distraction. And if you use it as a distraction, it absolutely is if you use it as a business tool, it absolutely is. So you’re right. Either way, it really just comes down to how you use it. But for me, what’s really powerful about social media is having that one to many conversation before the advent of social media and online networking and things of that nature. Realistically, the only one to many conversation we could have as real estate investors is going out to your local real estate investment group. Right. And you could maybe go, and if you were lucky, you could get up on stage and maybe talk for half an hour, give a little presentation or breakdown about what you’re doing.
Yeah. And so the first thing I think that we need to really discuss is why even care about social media, right? And I find a lot of investors think that it’s simply a distraction. And if you use it as a distraction, it absolutely is if you use it as a business tool, it absolutely is. So you’re right. Either way, it really just comes down to how you use it. But for me, what’s really powerful about social media is having that one to many conversation before the advent of social media and online networking and things of that nature. Realistically, the only one to many conversation we could have as real estate investors is going out to your local real estate investment group. Right. And you could maybe go, and if you were lucky, you could get up on stage and maybe talk for half an hour, give a little presentation or breakdown about what you’re doing.
Matt McKeever (22:44):
And that group maybe met once a month. So maybe once a year, you could get in their lineup, get up on stage and talk, or you had to become the host of the meet-up group in order to have that one to many conversation on a reoccurring basis. Whereas on my YouTube channel. And again, like my YouTube channel, isn’t massive by YouTube standards, but it’s important for what I’m focused on. And what I’m focused on is really talking to my core audience, which is Canadian real estate investors, and then just real estate investors in general. And so even with just like 60,000 subs on my YouTube channel, any given day, I’m averaging 4,000 to 5,000 views on my YouTube channel. The average view on my YouTube channel is about seven minutes long. So I view that as myself being able to have, you know, 4,000 to 5,000 conversations that are seven minutes long, every single day.
And that group maybe met once a month. So maybe once a year, you could get in their lineup, get up on stage and talk, or you had to become the host of the meet-up group in order to have that one to many conversation on a reoccurring basis. Whereas on my YouTube channel. And again, like my YouTube channel, isn’t massive by YouTube standards, but it’s important for what I’m focused on. And what I’m focused on is really talking to my core audience, which is Canadian real estate investors, and then just real estate investors in general. And so even with just like 60,000 subs on my YouTube channel, any given day, I’m averaging 4,000 to 5,000 views on my YouTube channel. The average view on my YouTube channel is about seven minutes long. So I view that as myself being able to have, you know, 4,000 to 5,000 conversations that are seven minutes long, every single day.
Matt McKeever (23:33):
Well, that’s more minutes than there already is available on the day. So right away that one to many conversations, extremely powerful. But even more so as real estate investors, it’s not like we necessarily have to go, you don’t need millions of followers or millions of views in order to have a very effective business model. You really just need, like for a lot of real estate investors, their business would be changed if they had five good private money partners, right? Or five private money lenders. And you can really build up a relationship with those people through social media. So a lot of people, they decide that they want to lend their money to me before I ever even make an ask. And that’s simply because they’re able to watch and see my projects. They get to see me interact on interviews or go live on Instagram or Facebook and just have conversations.
Well, that’s more minutes than there already is available on the day. So right away that one to many conversations, extremely powerful. But even more so as real estate investors, it’s not like we necessarily have to go, you don’t need millions of followers or millions of views in order to have a very effective business model. You really just need, like for a lot of real estate investors, their business would be changed if they had five good private money partners, right? Or five private money lenders. And you can really build up a relationship with those people through social media. So a lot of people, they decide that they want to lend their money to me before I ever even make an ask. And that’s simply because they’re able to watch and see my projects. They get to see me interact on interviews or go live on Instagram or Facebook and just have conversations.
Matt McKeever (24:20):
And they get to build a personal relationship with you. And something that we all need to remind ourselves as people like doing business with people they like. And so if you’re not putting yourself out there on social media, if you’re not trying to present, you know, your story, your image, your business model, you’re not giving anyone even the chance to fall in love with you and your story and want to invest in you or your business. So for me, there’s just so much power when it comes to social media, but I know I’ve just been kind of talking high level. So specifics. If any of your listeners here are brand new to social media, they’re intimidated by the idea. They don’t have a lot of time to invest into social media, pick one platform and spend at least 80% of your social media efforts on that one platform.
And they get to build a personal relationship with you. And something that we all need to remind ourselves as people like doing business with people they like. And so if you’re not putting yourself out there on social media, if you’re not trying to present, you know, your story, your image, your business model, you’re not giving anyone even the chance to fall in love with you and your story and want to invest in you or your business. So for me, there’s just so much power when it comes to social media, but I know I’ve just been kind of talking high level. So specifics. If any of your listeners here are brand new to social media, they’re intimidated by the idea. They don’t have a lot of time to invest into social media, pick one platform and spend at least 80% of your social media efforts on that one platform.
Matt McKeever (25:03):
Now, if you’re a small investor and you’re looking just to get a couple money partners or finding say two or three money partners with six figures or more to invest would be a game changer. I personally would focus on LinkedIn and I would literally just write one or two blog posts a week about my business model. Understand that’s never going to go viral. You’ll probably be lucky to get more than a couple of dozen views, but that’s all it takes. All you really want to do is really cultivate a strong relationship with a handful of money lenders. Now, for myself, there’s value in the education and email list and all that stuff. But for a lot of beginner, real estate investors, you don’t need that. You just need to build a handful of relationships and still social media is going to be a faster means to that end. Than going out to your local real estate investing group.
Now, if you’re a small investor and you’re looking just to get a couple money partners or finding say two or three money partners with six figures or more to invest would be a game changer. I personally would focus on LinkedIn and I would literally just write one or two blog posts a week about my business model. Understand that’s never going to go viral. You’ll probably be lucky to get more than a couple of dozen views, but that’s all it takes. All you really want to do is really cultivate a strong relationship with a handful of money lenders. Now, for myself, there’s value in the education and email list and all that stuff. But for a lot of beginner, real estate investors, you don’t need that. You just need to build a handful of relationships and still social media is going to be a faster means to that end. Than going out to your local real estate investing group.
Jay Conner (25:49):
That’s awesome! And then to wrap up Matt, I want us to hang out a few minutes on your view and your take on return on time versus return on instead of ROI, et cetera. So what’s your take on return on time and why is that so important?
That’s awesome! And then to wrap up Matt, I want us to hang out a few minutes on your view and your take on return on time versus return on instead of ROI, et cetera. So what’s your take on return on time and why is that so important?
Matt McKeever (26:08):
Yeah, it’s something that I think a lot of investors are looted by at the start. And so in general, I kind of view this evolution of real estate investors and their sophistication based upon the metrics they talk about. So CPA by nature. So kind of a numbers nerd and, you know, a ratio nerd to begin with. But in general, when brand new people come to real estate investing, I find they talk about ROI, you know, return on investment. And they’re really impressed by the return on investment real estate can generate. Then once they get a little bit more sophisticated, they really start appreciating and understanding leverage. And we hear them talking about things like cash on cash returns, and really then it’s about the velocity of their money. Then as people continue to graduate and evolve as investors, maybe they start looking at larger multifamily properties.
Yeah, it’s something that I think a lot of investors are looted by at the start. And so in general, I kind of view this evolution of real estate investors and their sophistication based upon the metrics they talk about. So CPA by nature. So kind of a numbers nerd and, you know, a ratio nerd to begin with. But in general, when brand new people come to real estate investing, I find they talk about ROI, you know, return on investment. And they’re really impressed by the return on investment real estate can generate. Then once they get a little bit more sophisticated, they really start appreciating and understanding leverage. And we hear them talking about things like cash on cash returns, and really then it’s about the velocity of their money. Then as people continue to graduate and evolve as investors, maybe they start looking at larger multifamily properties.
Matt McKeever (26:55):
At which point in time, they usually start talking about cap rates or IRR. The internal rate of return. And again, all of these metrics are useful, but at the end of the day, what really draws us to real estate investing in my opinion, is the ability to have a high return on time. And that’s what I’m really focused on these days as an investor and I’d encourage anyone else that’s in real estate investing to start viewing things through that lens. And so one of the best examples I can give is wholesaling real estate. Here in Canada, it’s still a relatively new concept. It’s maybe only five years old that people have really been doing it to any serious capacity. And so it’s got a little bit of a negative stigma still here in Canada. However, if you look at what you can accomplish with say, wholesaling versus flipping a property, usually the return on time, even if the total profit is lower on that wholesale deal, let’s say you can wholesale a deal for $10,000, or you could flip the same property and make $50,000.
At which point in time, they usually start talking about cap rates or IRR. The internal rate of return. And again, all of these metrics are useful, but at the end of the day, what really draws us to real estate investing in my opinion, is the ability to have a high return on time. And that’s what I’m really focused on these days as an investor and I’d encourage anyone else that’s in real estate investing to start viewing things through that lens. And so one of the best examples I can give is wholesaling real estate. Here in Canada, it’s still a relatively new concept. It’s maybe only five years old that people have really been doing it to any serious capacity. And so it’s got a little bit of a negative stigma still here in Canada. However, if you look at what you can accomplish with say, wholesaling versus flipping a property, usually the return on time, even if the total profit is lower on that wholesale deal, let’s say you can wholesale a deal for $10,000, or you could flip the same property and make $50,000.
Matt McKeever (27:52):
Well, the bigger question to me is how long does it take to wholesale assign that piece of paper versus actually flipping it. Well for the average person here in Canada, assigning it, you’re probably going to assign it in one to two weeks. So your return on time, let’s say it took you even a month. Well, your return on time is $10,000 per month. Whereas if we’re going to flip the property, well again, we have to tie up the property. We have to wait for it to close. Then we close on it. Then we have to do our renovations, fix it up. Then we have to put it up for sale. Then we have to sell it. Then we have to wait for it to close. Well, oftentimes even if you’re going to make $50,000, that entire process from start to finish, it might be five or six months.
Well, the bigger question to me is how long does it take to wholesale assign that piece of paper versus actually flipping it. Well for the average person here in Canada, assigning it, you’re probably going to assign it in one to two weeks. So your return on time, let’s say it took you even a month. Well, your return on time is $10,000 per month. Whereas if we’re going to flip the property, well again, we have to tie up the property. We have to wait for it to close. Then we close on it. Then we have to do our renovations, fix it up. Then we have to put it up for sale. Then we have to sell it. Then we have to wait for it to close. Well, oftentimes even if you’re going to make $50,000, that entire process from start to finish, it might be five or six months.
Matt McKeever (28:31):
Well, at that point in time, you’re looking at very similar return on time, but your perception of risk is higher as well because with the wholesale deal, we make the money before ever even closing on the deal. While we’re flipping there’s a speculative piece to it because we don’t really know what’s going to sell for, until it sells. So for myself and a lot of people that I’m trying to help level up as real estate investors these days. I really want them to focus on the highest return on time investments. And this is also really important because a lot of us, when we first get started as investors, a lot of us swing the hammers ourselves. We clean up the units ourselves. We paint the units ourselves. But oftentimes those are the lowest value skills, right? Like you could probably find someone to pay $10, $15, $20 an hour to clean up or paint the unit. Whereas you, as the investor would likely be better served going and finding the next deal or going and talking with your next private money partner. And really building those relationships and send yourself up to do more deals rather than trying to squeeze every deal for every penny. We’re better off to go find more deals. So this idea of return on time is just really being cognizant and not getting distracted by one piece of the puzzle, but really looking at the puzzle as a whole, When it comes to our investing and investment strategies.
Well, at that point in time, you’re looking at very similar return on time, but your perception of risk is higher as well because with the wholesale deal, we make the money before ever even closing on the deal. While we’re flipping there’s a speculative piece to it because we don’t really know what’s going to sell for, until it sells. So for myself and a lot of people that I’m trying to help level up as real estate investors these days. I really want them to focus on the highest return on time investments. And this is also really important because a lot of us, when we first get started as investors, a lot of us swing the hammers ourselves. We clean up the units ourselves. We paint the units ourselves. But oftentimes those are the lowest value skills, right? Like you could probably find someone to pay $10, $15, $20 an hour to clean up or paint the unit. Whereas you, as the investor would likely be better served going and finding the next deal or going and talking with your next private money partner. And really building those relationships and send yourself up to do more deals rather than trying to squeeze every deal for every penny. We’re better off to go find more deals. So this idea of return on time is just really being cognizant and not getting distracted by one piece of the puzzle, but really looking at the puzzle as a whole, When it comes to our investing and investment strategies.
Jay Conner (29:46):
Excellent! Thank you, Matt. Well, folks, go ahead and check out and subscribe to Matt’s YouTube channel at YouTube/MattMcKeever and that’s M A T T M C K E E V E R. Matt. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really enjoyed having you.
Excellent! Thank you, Matt. Well, folks, go ahead and check out and subscribe to Matt’s YouTube channel at YouTube/MattMcKeever and that’s M A T T M C K E E V E R. Matt. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really enjoyed having you.
Matt McKeever (30:07):
Thanks, Jay. Really appreciate it.
Thanks, Jay. Really appreciate it.
Jay Conner (30:09):
Alright! There you have it folks. Another show. I’m Jay Conner, The Private Money Authority. Wishing you all the best. And here’s to taking your real estate investing business to the next level. We’ll see you on the next show. Bye for now.
Alright! There you have it folks. Another show. I’m Jay Conner, The Private Money Authority. Wishing you all the best. And here’s to taking your real estate investing business to the next level. We’ll see you on the next show. Bye for now.
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