Brian Lauchner:
You can flip a house, but it is much easier and more profitable to flip a note, stay tuned.
Brian Lauchner:
Well, welcome back to NoteSchoolTV. It's great that you're back. We are here every Wednesday at 11:00 AM central time. So make sure you're joining us to engage and get the best content we can possibly put out every single week. If you're brand new, we'd love for you to like this video. If it's, if you find value of kind of what we're bringing across the web to you today, and if this is something that you really need in your business, make sure you're subscribing to our YouTube channel, really to just get the latest updates of kind of what's coming out and really to get the latest. You need to click that bell notification. That's going to give you turn your notifications on so that you are alerted every single time that we go live and you can jump into the chat and communicate with us, right?
Brian Lauchner:
Bring your questions, engage a little bit and participate in the conversation that we're doing. If you're brand new to notes or you're brand new to maybe even NoteSchool, and you're trying to figure out what does this mean and how does this work and what does it mean to my business? And you're trying to figure out that next step, a great place to go is www.NoteSchool.com/TV, to learn a little bit more about who we are, what we do and maybe some places you can go to again, take that next step on your journey and notes today. We've got some fantastic information. We have a very special guest I'm very excited about. But before we get to that, I want to talk about some of the breaking news with Joe.
Joe Varnadore:
Good morning, Brian, how are you, man?
Brian Lauchner:
I'm good. I'm good. In the words of a guy I talked to this week, what's kicking chicken?
Joe Varnadore:
What's kicking chicken. Well, there's a lot going on. As we know, prices are still going up and inventory is going down. But on the other side of that, there's a lot of interesting things coming on. So according to DS news and we know this right, millions of families could face housing insecurity in 2021. So as we read through this, and I'm going to pull up some stats here in just a second, but if you will look at this Brian, more than 11 million families, or almost 10% of us households are at a risk of evictions or foreclosures. Yeah. That's, that's pretty huge, right? I mean, that's, that's a big deal. Lot of Americans out there of, you know, really facing some challenge. So here are the stats. So delinquencies year over year from last year to this year are up 250%. 6% of are delinquent
Joe Varnadore:
On their on their monthly mortgage payments, right? 2.1 million Americans are 90 days. Delinquent, more homeowners are behind now. Then we're behind in 2010, which was the top of the great recession, right? The, the, what we call it, dumb school, the crash in slow motion that lasted from like 2004 until, you know, till it ended right after 2010 and then 8.8 tenant households are behind on their rent. So these are some huge numbers, $90 billion in deferred P I T I payments are delinquent. So we have, and this is all according to the CFPB, which is the consumer finance protection Bureau, which oversees all the GSEs, Fannie Freddie, Jenny all of the, all of the credit reporting agencies and all of those things. So these are some pretty sobering sobering statistics, right? What do you think about all this? Let's bring on Mr. Eddie Speed, by the way.
Brian Lauchner:
And while we're doing that, it's like we're in the middle of a mortgage crisis. Wouldn't you say, Mr. Speed?
Eddie Speed:
You know, it's it's, I've said this on a frequent basis. I've been doing this, you know, for 40 years and I've never seen a market like this. It's just a wireless thing. There's certainly no argument that real estate is on fire and everything is like, they're fighting in the front yard, over the buying a house. I see it on the news. And where I live in Dallas, Fort worth every day and nationally we pay attention to it daily. Right? What we want people to do. They're listening to NoteSchoolTV is understand the variables to help influence your smartest decisions. Absolutely. That's what it is. Are we saying that we're in for 2008 again? I don't think we're saying that. I would say what we're saying is you can make really good decisions when you have good information.
Joe Varnadore:
Totally agree with that, sir. Well, we have a special guest who, you know, I'd have to say this, this young man is I'm one of his biggest fans, I think, Eddie So Mr. Justin Bogart, how are you, sir?
Justin Bogard:
Hey guys. How's it going? Doing great. How are you all doing?
Brian Lauchner:
Great.
Joe Varnadore:
Wonderful. My friend and you know, Eddie, Justin's going to get married here pretty quick after this pandemic thing goes over and we're going to have a, and he'll be able to have a you know, a public type wedding, right. Justin?
Justin Bogard:
That would be the plan. Yeah.
Eddie Speed:
That's awesome. Very glad for you.
Justin Bogard:
Thank you.
Eddie Speed:
Very good.
Joe Varnadore:
Eddie, why don't you run through this with Justin and let's talk about, you know, let's talk about Justin for a little bit.
Eddie Speed:
Well, so Justin Bogard lives in Indianapolis, Indiana, and I think that's relative to the fact that Justin is, you'll hear him tell the story of kind of where he does business. And you'll start really realizing that he picked a business that suited versus trying to go pick a business and suit his life around the business. Justin, I want to talk about that. Tell us how, tell us your background and how you got started.
Justin Bogard:
Sure. Well, I was watching HD TV a lot in the 2010 past era, just like everybody else. Right? You see these people on TV and they're flipping houses and they're doing things and they're working on their house and they make this, this large sum of money at the end. And, and you don't see all the stuff that happens in between. And so I was like, yeah, that's for me, that's what I want to do. I like real estate. I bought my own house in 2010. I put a little bit sweat equity. I'm sorry. Before 2010, I bought a house and then I put sweat equity into it and sold it for a profit within 24 hours. And I thought, huh, there's something to this. I like this. So I invested in myself, it took some real estate education courses. And then I learned how to flip and wholesale and landlord and stuff.
Justin Bogard:
And I really didn't like it. Eddie. I found out it was pretty darn hard to run a business, right. That and have systems and deal with contractors and tenants, toilets and trash, and you know, the drill. And then lo and behold, my good friend, Joe Varnadore up there in the corner. He came into my local REIA and was talking about investing in mortgage notes. And I'm like, what? Why would someone do that? But I'm curious. I want to hear what he has to say. And he did a presentation. And I remember the one slide that Joe had. It was a guy that was carrying a wheel or pulling a wheelbarrow full of cash. And he's wearing a suit and I'm like, man, that's me. That's what I want to do. So I like running the numbers. I like looking at stuff on paper, but I don't really want swing a hammer if I don't have to. And so this business was very well suited for me. And it gave me a lot of time back to once I got into it, I could go pick up my kids from school and drop them off. And I really didn't have to have a set schedule from nine to five, so to speak and kind of, that's how I got into the note business. So thank you, Joe.
Joe Varnadore:
You're very welcome, Justin. You know, you were one of those guys that just, you never looked back, right. You never gave up and you just jumped in there and you did it, man.
Justin Bogard:
Thank you.
Eddie Speed:
You know, I remember Justin, we were at an event and you were telling the story about the ultimate decision was because of your girls. Yeah. And the fact that you could do the business remotely, virtually, and you could you could pick your schedule and your format. And that way, as you said, you could pick up your girls from school and do all that stuff. And I think a lot of people find themselves in a situation we want to be entrepreneurs. And then we find out that the job owns us.
Justin Bogard:
Exactly.
Eddie Speed:
When did you when was that? When did you start with us?
Justin Bogard:
Let's see, 2016 is when I was a member of NoteSchool,.
Eddie Speed:
You're a veteran now dude.
Justin Bogard:
I'm seasoned.
Eddie Speed:
You got a doctorate's degree, don't you?
Justin Bogard:
I like that. I should put that on my email tag. Right.
Eddie Speed:
All right. So this is a mystical business, right? It's kind of a mystical business and we call it flipping a note. And so how do you do that? Like what, what does that look like? how do you go find somebody that owns a note and how do you get them to call you?
Justin Bogard:
That's a really good question. And so when I was in walls called traditional real estate, when I was wholesaling houses, I would send out direct mail campaigns to people that would have properties that were, you know, they need a lot of TLC, right. That could be desperate to sell. And so I did the similar thing in the model of note, investing to where I was looking for owners of properties that have carried back financing, all recorded with the County. And so I get a list of those names and send out a mail, a mail piece. They're usually a number 10 envelope with a letter inside and said, Hey, my name's Justin. I would like to buy your note, did, you know, you could sell it and so on and so forth. And you would get a call to action where they would pick up the phone and they will dial your number. And you'd answer the phone. You kind of start the conversation from there. Yeah.
Eddie Speed:
Yeah. It's a cycle, right? And you use some attractive marketing and we've tested this a lot. So at the time you came along, gosh, I dropped 5 million pieces of mail. I had some idea of what, how this was going to work.
Justin Bogard:
Right.
Eddie Speed:
And that was good. You didn't have to go test something there. So, Joe, you got a slide deck there. Let's look at a real asset.
Joe Varnadore:
There you go.
Eddie Speed:
How about a real asset there? So where was that?
Justin Bogard:
Yeah, that's in Fort Wayne, Indiana
Eddie Speed:
Fort Wayne, Indiana. And how far is that from you?
Justin Bogard:
That's probably about a two hour, 20 minute drive from Indianapolis.
Eddie Speed:
So I assume that you had to go down there and look at the house and do all that stuff, right?
Justin Bogard:
Oh, no, I didn't have to.
Eddie Speed:
You mean you did it virtually.
Justin Bogard:
I did actually. I don't even think I ever saw the house except for a picture.
Eddie Speed:
So that means that you could market to people in somewhere else in Indiana, you can market to people in Michigan, you can market to people in Arizona you can market people in Texas from your living room. So to speak?
Justin Bogard:
Exactly.
Eddie Speed::
From the station headquarters we see here on film people.
Justin Bogard:
The world headquarters, world headquarters. Yeah.
Eddie Speed:
All right. Let's talk about this asset. So this property set was seller financed and was sold and the loan was 61 Oh 18. So that was the principal remaining plus interest at six and a half percent payment is five 61. And there were, let's just call it just in about 13 and a half years worth of payments left, right. 164 months. Right. People in the note business talk in terms of months, not years, because most of the notes are monthly pay and there's a number of payments remaining. So, but look, it was a good asset, wasn't it?
Justin Bogard:
Absolutely. Yeah. Very strong collateral value. And the balance was significantly lower than the value. So we got a lot of protection there.
Eddie Speed:
So you, you ultimately did it and the cost on this note, and this was the whole price of the note. Right. But you may buy the note as this. Yeah. So you, how did you like, okay, so you got this note, you vetted it, you got some preliminary information. How in the world did you know how to go out and price it? Right.
Justin Bogard:
Well, that, that's the thing. It's, it's a, there's no pre-canned response to what the value of a note is. And there's so many different values to a note as, as you guys know you know, with the interest rate, the terms, the paper it's written on the borrower, the down payment, you know, there's, there's a lot of several factors that kind of give it its value. So there are some strong points to it. As you can tell where the collateral is really strong, it's really high in value. As other parts of this deal that a little bit weaker interest rate could be a little bit better. The turn could be stretched out a little longer. You don't see that on this page, but this borrower is not paying through a traditional loan servicing company where it's, third-party vetted, it paid directly to the seller. So you take them for what their word is, is worth. But if it was with a third-party seller, right, you could obviously vet the unpaid balance to where, you know, it's true and accurate. So there are just little nuances about this note that didn't give it its full value as far as someone wanting to pay 60 1018
Eddie Speed:
For it. Yeah. It's not a, the investment grade factories, isn't banking level, investment grade, right, right. This isn't a Fannie Mae loan. There's not the documentation. It's not, it's not handled in such a manner. And so there's nothing wrong with it, but it, when you take it to the secondary market, it's going to be traded at a discount. Right. Absolutely. All right. So let's talk about that. Eddie speed doing this a long time ago. One thing that I think Joe and I take pride in our teaching and Brian and our teaching is that we've done this. We're not, we're not some guru teaching about some concept that we don't do. And we're as active buying notes as I've ever been in my career. And so it's, that's, that's pretty critical to me that we're, it makes us real. Right. All right. So I used to, I used to have a saying, Justin, you've heard me say it many times a salesman's job is to deliver bad news.
Eddie Speed:
So everything's good until you tell them what the price is for the note. Right?
Justin Bogard:
Right. Yeah.
Eddie Speed:
All right. You gotta work. You carved in a decent yield in this, right?
Justin Bogard:
Yes.
Eddie Speed:
You made about almost 5,000 bucks.
Justin Bogard:
Yes.
Joe Varnadore:
So we gave you a price. Our company bought this note. Right. Cause we buy notes, you know, we're actually, it's weird. We have a training business. We actually do the business funniest thing.
Joe Varnadore:
Novel idea is it not?
Justin Bogard:
Exactly.
Eddie Speed:
Yeah. So we priced the note and then you went back and deducted your commission off of there, your flipping fee before you gave them the price. Right. So sort of simple math here. You're giving them about 42, five for their note.
Justin Bogard:
Right.
Eddie Speed:
Okay, and they owed 61. So let's talk about that. How do you move that customer to something that they're okay with and that idea?
Justin Bogard:
Well, you put it great Eddie is the salesman's job is to deliver bad news. And it's like you said, in the beginning of the conversation, it's a cycle. So you're having a conversation with them from step one. You're not getting all the answers today. You're just prepping them for the next time. They're going to have a follow-up phone call. So you can continue having that conversation with them. The longer you have that conversation with them, the more likely they're going to end up understanding that it's going to be sold at a discount in there and they're going to want to sell it to you. You can't just go to the seller and just tell them all the facts and get all the data in one conversation go, Oh, here's a price. And they're just like, why would I sell that to you? They don't understand why it's discounted. So when you explain it to the you build that cycle as you talked about.
Eddie Speed:
Facetime being on the farm right time with your customer is going to be an ingredient that if you try to eliminate it, you can have the most silver tongue in the world, but you don't have enough relationship with them. What you did. It is a market condition. You didn't cheat them. This is just not, this is not a note that trades at a hundred cents on the dollar. We didn't pay you a hundred cents on the dollar. And we didn't go find the note and spend the marketing effort and all this stuff that you had to do, to go do it. So you didn't Mark an unreasonable fee. You made 5,000 bucks. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. But you did, you had a value add. And so the customer has to understand that they cooked this pie. Right. You're only pricing the pie they cooked that's speaking. Right. Right. And so obviously you're talking through it and the only way that we ever learned to do this, and obviously you become a champ at it is you just got to spend some time with them and make them kind of see who you are as a person and how you do business. And then all of a sudden it's more feasible. So one of the things that, one of the things I want to talk about before we get off of that, is how many conversations do you typically have before you lead to the price?
Justin Bogard:
I would say on average, it's four to five conversations pretty regularly. Rarely does it happen where there's less than four conversations, but it's four to five conversations.
Eddie Speed:
And I assume that you leave a plan from the last conversation that leads you to be the starter of the next conversation.
Justin Bogard:
Yeah. The goal in the negotiation, if you will, that they don't realize there's a negotiation going on is to dictate the next step or dictate the terms for them. Otherwise they're not going to take the accountability to call it and be like, okay, let's call me in a couple of days. Well, don't do that. Say call me tomorrow at 10:00 AM, or I'm going to call you at 10:00 AM. So, and I'm going to look to get this answer from you, whether it's, you know, research the taxes on it, or check the insurance for me or show me the deck page just give them a little homework assignment,
Eddie Speed:
You know, words, you got them checking on something, and then you have a set appointment that you're on talking to them the next day, once they've done that.
Justin Bogard:
Right.
Eddie Speed:
Okay. That's cool. That's that's that's how you do it. Yeah. That's how you do it and get in and get a good closing ratio. All right. I want to go back to so let's just talk about let's, we've got all the parties here. Joe's got some really cool slides here. So just, if you can see that kind of describe who the squat, how it fits. All right.
Justin Bogard:
The note seller is the person that I'm advertising to from my direct mail campaign. I'm talking with them on the phone, a good look of note flipper with that business ties me. Right? And that funding thoughts is Eddie's group here. I happen to sell this loan to Eddie, but it couldn't, it could have been a different bank, could have been a different hedge fund or a capital partner or a private investor itself. So that would be the funding source, the person that's putting up the dough.
Justin Bogard:
So conversations with, with the seller that's can happen two different ways. I could actually fund the deal and I could flip it to the funding source as well. Or in most cases that happens, the funding source is actually the one that has the money that transfers the money over to the note seller after you, when you close. And then the note seller gets their share. And then I also get a fee for what I worked in on a deal. So the funding source in this case sold it, they bought it for 47, let's say, and a half thousand dollars. And I negotiated with the seller of the note to 42 and a half thousand dollars. So obviously there's a $5,000 difference. And that's what comes to me from the funding source. So the funding source is paying 47, five. I'm getting 5,000 and the note seller is getting 42,500. In that case,
Eddie Speed:
You set your own salary.
Justin Bogard:
I'm sorry.
Eddie Speed:
You set your own salary.
Justin Bogard:
Yeah.
Eddie Speed:
That's it, that's the ultimate in the entrepreneurial relationship. Right. You have a trusted party on either side. You're not being unreasonable with them.
Justin Bogard:
Right.
Eddie Speed:
But you're saying, Hey, I'm doing, I'm bringing value to the table. You know what? You're going to sell it for before you have to price it. So you're not like blindly just throwing out a number. Right. And Joe man, you, you laced it up here with that slide.
Joe Varnadore:
Well, that's just the way it is. Right. Justin's got that big S on his chest. So, you know that's super Justin.
Eddie Speed:
Super Justin that's it.
Joe Varnadore:
You've done it. You've done a couple of these in the past couple of years, hadn't you?
Justin Bogard:
Yeah. I, when I first started after 2016, that's primarily how I sourced my deals was through direct mail. I don't do direct mail as much anymore, but that's that's was a part of me growing into what we'll call a master broker.
Eddie Speed:
Yeah. That's great. And, and you have turned into where you have a nest of investors. You don't just sell us, but obviously we've got a good, trusted relationship with you. And we, you know, we, when we're a fit, we'd get to buy. And when somebody else is a fit, you get to do business with them, you know?
Justin Bogard:
Absolutely.
Eddie Speed:
You know, I just wanted to, you know, you are a good example of a real estate investor vaster reinventing themselves because you went into an excessively competitive market flipping houses. Right?
Justin Bogard:
Little did I know, Right.
Eddie Speed:
Now you've entered an excessively, not competitive market because truth be told there's a hundred thousand seller finance notes created a year and there's a few dozen guys like you in the business that are out there hammering it. And it's not any more crowded than that. Am I exaggerating?
Justin Bogard:
No, you're not. And that's how I explain to people what I do and why I'm in the note business is exactly that reason. I go against the grain when everyone is running this way, I'm going that way. And that's kind of how I've always been just internally. That's how I'm wired. And I like that. It's not really a lot of competition. It's more collaboration with other note investors that I know, and that I partner with on deals as well.
Eddie Speed:
One last question. What advice would you give somebody that's, where you were in 2016? What would you tell them?
Justin Bogard:
I would say, well, a couple of things I would say, stay disciplined, stay, stay, stay the course of what you want to do and you'll get there. It's not something that gives you a success overnight. It's a longer play, but it's definitely a wealth building tool to where a lot of these deals that you have, it can turn into cash flowing investments for yourself in the future. So you just got to stay the course and just continue to move forward with it. And you'll eventually look back and realize, man, I got several notes in my portfolio now because of all this work that I've done, So.
Eddie Speed:
Yeah, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Right. And that's it, and that's great advice. That's every entrepreneur endeavor starts out with somebody that stays focused on the course. The success path is always going to lead to that.
Justin Bogard:
Yep.
Eddie Speed:
Joe, what you got there, Captain?
Joe Varnadore:
Well, you know, just, I'm sure people are kind of wondering and saying, Hey Justin, how many deals have you done in the last couple of years?
Justin Bogard:
I want to say over 80.
Joe Varnadore:
Yeah?
Justin Bogard:
Over 80. Yeah.
Joe Varnadore:
Over 80 deals like this. And, and you made kind of an average of what?
Justin Bogard:
I think when you do the math, it was somewhere close to $4,000 a deal. We'll call it a transaction fee income transaction.
Joe Varnadore:
Yeah. Well, you know, Eddie, I think that dog will hunt. Right.
Eddie Speed:
Well, the other thing that I happen to know is, is that you have also stayed focused on not just flipping notes, note, flipping businesses allowed you to become an investor. So you also have a portfolio. Right? So it's like, you're not just flipping notes, but you're note flipping business has created the environment where you can go add these other dimensions to it.
Justin Bogard:
Absolutely. We'll call it seed money so I can build a crop.
Eddie Speed:
That's great. All right, Joe, take us home out here pal.
Joe Varnadore:
All right. So good job, Justin, thanks so much.
Justin Bogard:
You're welcome.
Joe Varnadore:
You've been that guy. Right. And Justin was in a market where a lot of fix and flippers, right. A lot of wholesalers. Right. And now you're one of those guys that they look up to in your market and you always looked up to them right?
Justin Bogard:
Yeah, kinda weird how the tables turned.
Joe Varnadore:
Isn't that funny? Yeah. Good job, man. We'll try out if you do very proud of you. So Justin hang out with us and we're going to have a little after party here when we get done, but right now we're going to bring Mr. Brian Lauchner back on. And he's going to tell us about Feeding Frenzy Friday.
Brian Lauchner:
That's right. NoteSchool,TV is sponsored by feeding frenzy, Friday and notes direct. And Basically what feeding frenzy Friday is, is each week on note school.com/f F F, which is a YouTube playlist. We break down the details of a note from NotesDirect. We talk about the pros and the cons and really what to look at to really start to better master your skills, hone your skills, to make you a better note investor. And so it's a great playlist to go check out if you're wanting to buy notes and even kind of like Justin's done kind of transform your business a little bit at a time. In fact, next week, we're going to be hosting Mr. Ben Hot, who his NoteSchool, zone. And he's going to be talking about his Hamill Meyer model, which is all about becoming a master broker, which is something that Justin kind of threw out as a nugget.
Brian Lauchner:
And so if you're wanting to see how to start and then really grow into a really solid investment business, don't miss next week when we are live Wednesday at 11:00 AM central, just like every single Wednesday. And again, if this was a great you know, video for you, you got some, some value out of this, please like the video. It does a lot for us, make sure you're subscribing to the channel. And then again, if you want to participate, like so many people did in the comments I see over here, make sure you're clicking that bell notification so that you can engage with us type your questions say whatever you feel like you need to say, right. And kind of get engaged in the conversation. Right now, if you are somebody who, you know, you're trying to figure out what that next step is for you outside of just joining us here on NoteSchool,TV.
Brian Lauchner:
Another thing you could do to learn a little bit about notes and note school, you can go to node school.com/dv to learn a little bit more about who we are. And then if you're somebody who you want help right now, you have this burning desire to succeed in real estate. You've got something you need solved, or maybe you just need help with some sort of specific situation and you need some action right now. I would encourage you to go to www.NoteSchool.com/TV and then simply simply click on the tab that says, contact us. It's a way to get engaged with us and say, Hey, I need to speak with somebody about these issues or my next step or whatever that is for you. That's just a place that you can go right away to get some help. We are going to be having an after party which is basically stick around. We're going to get engaged a little bit more with Justin. Talk about some of the questions that people have brought up on the question board and just have a little bit more fun. So if you can stick around, that'd be great. If not, we'll plan on seeing you next week at 11:00 AM central.
Brian Lauchner:
All right. Well, we are back in the after-party Justin. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Justin Bogard:
Yeah. Thanks a lot for having me on guys. I appreciate it. It's always fun to get to chat with you guys and hang out for a minute. Yeah,
Brian Lauchner:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, let's kind of talk a little bit about that we have a lot of people on today had a lot of questions and stuff like that. One of the things that came up from Sean Gregory said what's the other ways that, you know, now to market for notes. And I think that direct mail is the typical way that we've we've been taught, but maybe kind of help dive in a little bit more about what are some ways that you kind of generate lead flow or either for deals or maybe even for investors.
Justin Bogard:
Yeah, that's a great question. And direct mail obviously is one way to do it. The other way to do it is you really need to build relationships with either capital sources, hedge funds, banks, whoever has paper, or has funds that goes after paper is another great way to find those sources of loans and then be the guy in your local market or the gal in your local market that stands up and says, Hey, I buy notes who has land contracts or note mortgages that they wanna sell? I can buy those from you. And so that's, that's a one way I do it as well as my local REIA club. I'm one of the few people that buys loans. And so I had that opportunity to stand up once a month and talk about that. So those are kind of the quick and easy places there are exchanges online or different places you can go to buy loans and stuff. And that's another source that we've looked at as well, but there's nothing better than the seller finance loan that you can find from doing direct mail or just from your local area, because those are always the best deals, Brian.
Brian Lauchner:
Yeah, I like that. And I think that, you know, Eddie, you're somebody who's been doing this for 40 years, you know, when you started, what were some of the things that help position you as the subject matter expert on notes in the markets you were doing deals in.
Eddie Speed:
You know, it's funny. Cause Justin, it, you know, and I'm very familiar with his path. In fact, Justin and I are mutually good friends with a lot of his good clients because they liked the fact that he really helps them, the real estate investor construct good notes, so they can get a good price, which is what I really did for home. Vestors back in the night. Right. And so in the nineties we were using, we, I stumbled into figuring out how, how to do direct mail in 1982. Right. So we had tried it a good bit and stuff, but, but then I really started realizing if I could become, I used to call it Justin, you remember this? I used to call it being a third base coach. Yup. Right. If I could help somebody make a good note, then I became the reliable source naturally to become their exit, to go recapitalize, sell the note and start over again. And there's many different ways you could configure that, but really that's the idea. And you do have a Sterling reputation in your market with real estate investors that you are the guy. Now, the fear is somebody says, well, I'm not the guy today. I hadn't start. Okay. Well then, then isn't it true though, Justin, that you really started with more like a direct mail campaign. And as you learn more than You can start building rapport where you didn't have to drop as much mail to go find it Business.
Justin Bogard:
Absolutely. I could find the deals through the techniques that I learned, you know, from, from you guys at no school. But then it was also working with investors and trying to raise capital and explaining my story and then buying notes for my own self and showing like, this is what I do. Like I buy it non-performing and performing loans. And these are the case studies I have. Like, I don't have a million dollars behind me, but how do I get, you know, to the point to where I can start getting more stuff. And, and so what is working with investors? So I'm always raising capital talk with investors and I'm always looking for deals because I want to have that deal flow. And I want to have that cash flow to coming in. So I can have it both ways.
Joe Varnadore:
Sorry. I was going to say, Justin, that you, what are the other things? So the two things really that people look at when they get into the business is okay, how do I find inventory? And in the second is building up an investor network, right? And you started a little meetup with just a couple of people. And then in fact, I spoke at your meetup once and in the beginning. And so you were able to tell us a little bit about that, about how you know, how that worked out
Justin Bogard:
Well, it's the unknown, right? You, you don't really know how it's going to work because there's no written manual or step-by-step procedure in front of you that shows you how to do this stuff. It's trial and error and it's, you cannot be afraid to step out and to find out what's going to happen. So I started to meet up with, you know, no money involved, right? Just going on to different websites and saying, Hey, we're getting together talking about notes and, you know, two or three people showed up for the very first meeting. So it's kind of discouraging at first, but then you just have to understand, you got to stay the course. It's like, if you have a business and you use social media, you can't just have one or two social media posts and expect to get a following.
Justin Bogard:
You have to have a consistency and a trail of social media posts on and on for several months or even a year before you finally get a following. So the same thing with your meetup and anything else you do as an entrepreneur, you have to stay the course and be disciplined. And slowly it's a snowball just builds and builds and builds and get bigger and bigger and bigger. And because there's not a lot of people doing this in the note space, especially it's easy for me to brand myself as the note guy. So I've been very fortunate that there's not a lot of, it's not crowded in this space right now. So it's been easier for me to develop a following. And I think we have over a thousand followers for a meetup now. Wow.
Brian Lauchner:
Yeah. And especially in times like this, you know we've said several times in the show that a lot of investors, especially a lot of landlords in the last 12 months or so are looking for ways to get similar returns or maybe even keep their return on investment. But how do we take a lot of risk off of the table, right? And simply by presenting the solution of, Hey, I can show you how to be the bank and own a note. You don't have tenants or toilets that the messaging is working really well right now. And so it's just kind of a very private market to, to start the conversation. If that's, for those of you who are on the show right now, I'm trying to figure out if this is for you or not. If you're somebody who's wanting to dive in and you're tired of competing with the HDTV you know, environment, this sometimes can be a great, a great fit. There's not going to be an HGTV show on note flipping. I don't think there could be. It's just not as sexy as well.
Eddie Speed:
Justin will do that, Brian. Yeah.
Brian Lauchner:
My, my resume, my video resume and everything.
Brian Lauchner:
Yeah. I love it.
Eddie Speed:
You know what? It's a quiet giant.
Brian Lauchner:
Yes, Exactly. And in the meantime, before everybody else in the world finds out because of an HGTV show that comes up, you might as well just keep going Justin, and then making as much as you can while it's still a quiet giant. So a couple other things that people saying, obviously lots of people William says congrats. Micah, I know pointed out that he wished he would have learned this 10 years ago. Obviously, you know, once you learn, it is quite interesting to see how it can start to replace a lot of the traditional real estate strategies and still not have to give up anything. And so, yeah, it's a pretty big deal. And then obviously we've got a super job here and more appreciation for being on the show for sure.
Justin Bogard:
Thank you.
Brian Lauchner:
Yeah. I'd say one of the, go ahead, Joe.
Eddie Speed:
I was just gonna say, let me throw one more aspect into this. And so guys, here's the thing, you know, Justin you know, you were doing a lot of, you know, flipping right. Making one-time money. And now what you're doing as you may flip four and keep one to build long-term wealth. Right?
Justin Bogard:
Absolutely.
Joe Varnadore:
Eddie. You can talk about that, man.
Eddie Speed:
Well, when Justin started with us, I gave him the, any, anybody that comes to the system, I gave him a very clear path to say, look, I don't want you just to make transactional income. I'm not the giant fan of somebody just flipping houses because there's no wealth in it. Right. The way that you build wealth is you have an asset that pays you a long time in the future that you don't have to go do anything for that's wealth.
Eddie Speed:
And so Justin makes his eating money on flipping notes, and then he is still has enough deal flow that he can then grow wealth with it and earn payments long, long time in the future, being the bank and not having to go get up and find another deal just to go the mailbox and get it to get the check he's already entitled to. And that's just, that's just smart, smart application right there. He just did a great job of applying. I mean, look, I've tried it all right. I mean, I've been doing it for two years. I've tried about everything. And the truth of matter is just, it just does your heart good to see some, some guy that now has a family situation. That's awesome because he's built a business that fits his family.
Brian Lauchner:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, that is so great. Well, we're going to kind of wrap up www.NoteSchool.com/TV for this week. I did see Samed said, how did you learn? What, you know, did you take the NotesSchool classes? I know you had mentioned a couple of times that you did. And I was just going to simply state that probably if you're trying to figure out maybe the next step for you, how to get involved with some of the classes that we teach, do simply go to www.NoteSchool.com/TV. And that's a great place to get plugged in and learn a little bit more about the classes that we teach, but Justin, if you wanted to say anything, feel free, but that's kind of what he had mentioned.
Justin Bogard:
Absolutely. Yeah. I did get my training from NotesSchool, from Eddie and Joe and the other educators in, in your, in your, on your team and the concepts that they teach are what I put in real life applications. So you talk about partials, you talk about arbitrage, you talk about raising private money. There's so many things you can do the note business. It's not just about flipping, It's just what I chose to start off with to build a business out of it. Like Eddie said, I have to eat, right. I got to make a little bit money, so I have to have transactional money and then I want retirement money. So I have to grow my wealth. So that's what I do. I learn other techniques to build my wealth long-term so I don't have to rely on transactional money, every single month.
Brian Lauchner:
That's it. That's it. Well, thank you so much once again, Justin. Thanks, Joe. Thanks Eddie. We'll plan on seeing YouTube next week on NotesSchoolTV on Wednesday and Justin we'll catch you at an event here soon with thanks to everybody for jumping on, stick around for the after party. We'll see. On the other side.
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